@guerrillablack of course there are cyclists who do dangerous shit, but it's also weighing personal safety against traffic laws not really written with some aspects of cyclists in mind

@mallaidh I see it so often on streets where there aren't even cars behind them though. Like I understand being afraid of being hit from behind, but when it's just them, they know I want to turn and I got there before them and there's a pedestrian too and they just zoom on ahead

it's like.......... come on

@guerrillablack and that's where laziness/conserving energy comes into play, because it's a pain to do a full stop then get back up to speed. of course yielding to pedestrians should come first, but i think the idaho stop is a good policy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop

@guerrillablack One of the better reasons to abolish cars is that then it’ll be possible to have a proper conversation about cycling without being an asshole.

@guerrillablack (How to cycle without being an asshole, that is. Poor phrasing there.)

I see so many bicyclists that don't signal when they turn. They almost hit pedestrians. They tail me. They cross streets at red lights???!?!?!?!?!

Like, I just want to know why.

@guerrillablack Crossing at a red... sometimes it's daredevil outlaw behavior, sometimes (if they slow down and look) it's simply practical - they're usually sitting far further forward relative to the front of their vehicle than a driver would be, and sitting pretty high up, and therefore can see cross traffic more easily before they cross.

And, it takes a fair amount of energy to get going at speed again, unless you have an e-bike.

@guerrillablack Honestly my bigger concern is when they're riding the shoulder of the road but don't know how to fucking ride a bike and keep swerving as they pedal.

@InkAndCircuits @guerrillablack sometimes that's because the shoulder is covered with gravel and broken glass, sometimes the shoulder is just plain falling apart, that's why you pass with at least yard of space

@mallaidh @guerrillablack I get what you're saying and I know that sometimes there's a reason for it, but it's frankly not feasible to pass with a yard of space given the structure of the roads in my location, most of the time.

We really need to change the roads, to be honest. Or just build up public transportation and bike lanes so we can get rid of private cars.

@guerrillablack
My biggest gripe with this is that when you do shit nobody expects, other users of the road (usually cars) might react unpredictably, potentially leading to an accident.

@skiant That's fair.

Like I drive with the understanding that it's scary for all involved. I've had to bike around cars and it's stressful as fuck. But if I start going and a bike runs a stop sign (which happens to me regularly), I have to slam on the breaks really hard bc I know a collision will hurt them more than me. When it feels like it'd be better to not zoom into oncoming traffic.

I dunno, maybe just cyclists in this city who just don't gaf because cars in this city also don't gaf.

@skiant @guerrillablack when I lived in San Francisco I biked a lot and I tried to lead by example by keeping it legal. Cars constantly expected me to break the law. Then when they realized I wasn’t, some other asshole on a bike would come along and run the stop sign I was legally waiting at, nearly causing an accident and making everyone pissed at me anyway.

@fluffy @skiant I usually let bicyclists go unless I'm already in motion before they get to the stop.

@fluffy @guerrillablack @skiant Happens to me in Vienna as well.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I can't wait until I move to a city with decent fucking infrastructure so I don't have to drive anymore.

(for the record, I'm just as grouchy when I see cars do fucked up shit which is also a daily occurrence.)

@guerrillablack Self-righteous drivers > self-righteous cyclists > self-righteous pedestrians when it comes to unpleasantness, I think.

@ghost_bird Other cars on the road give me way more palpitations and stress than bicyclists ever will.

@guerrillablack Absolutely. But I realise, now I’m thinking about it, that it’s easier to get cross with cyclists because they’re less impersonal than a car, and closer to pedestrian scale.

@ghost_bird Mmmm, I dunno about that, as irritable as I seem today, I am 1000% more upset at drivers. Like I will literally give drivers dirty looks and honk my horn etc etc whereas with bicyclists, I just let them go about their way lol

@guerrillablack It’s a tendency I have to fight against but it’s probably because I don’t drive at all and I live in a big city where congestion means the cyclists are often going faster than the cars.

@guerrillablack i only run a red light on intersections that i know the beat by heart, and only if it makes sense.

but then again, i now live in a city that has a lot of dedicated bike lanes, and where drivers are not actively trying to murder me. which is a nice change from Vienna.
that change meant that i had to unlearn a lot of hyper-defensive driving styles, cuz they were counter productive here.

@meena Someone told me that cyclists were regularly mowed down by cars in London too 😬

@guerrillablack @meena I’m in London, and there’s some truth in that.

@guerrillablack as a daily cyclist I've got say that most of the times that I do crazy shit it's to try to anticipate crazy shit by cars, there's a lot of good drivers out there, but unfortunate I only need one bad driver to ruin my day :(

That being said, I try to only do rolling stops, and I sign most of the time, specially because of pedestrians, because a lot of cars still cut me even if I sign that I'm turning the other way 🤷🏽‍♂️

@guerrillablack It is often safer to start early while the motorists still wait because you can't get run over by someone turning right. I do it if it makes sense for my safety.

@distel That, to me, makes sense and is totally fine. (I'm currently reading a thing on cyclists breaking traffic laws thing and they just mentioned that lolol)

@guerrillablack it's huge, actually it's the cause of most cycling deaths around here. Also the "Idaho stop" comes to my mind! Did you come across that?

@guerrillablack i read that it means cyclists can treat red lights as a stop sign and a stop sign as a yield sign and I tried it out and it makes perfect sense. But only when there is little traffic!

@distel @guerrillablack As an avid cyclist of most sorts: cyclists should obey the law! 😄

In the US, at least, cyclists don't break the law any more often than drivers do. (E.g., see "Naturalistic Bicycling
Behavior ... 2017".) We just tend to get noticed far more!

I have a lot of patience for riders who break the law where they're picking safety. Far, far less so for when they're picking convenience.

@jond @guerrillablack well said! Me too.

@zigg Ooooo thank you, will read.

@guerrillablack That said, I'm reading more of your thread now and I'm thinking this person who cut you off at a stop is probably just rude. Not to mention that sounds pretty dangerous for him to do

@starbreaker Nearly hitting pedestrians and running red lights is basic safety. Signaling so I know where you're turning is basic safety.

@guerrillablack I say this as an erstwhile cyclist who doesn't usually come to a full stop at vacant stop signs, but also as a former bus driver who has only just barely avoided killing a cyclist blowing through a light more than once.