@Are0h "violence is never the answer" is a song sung by people who do not have a need to defend themselves from violence

@modgethanc Absolutely. Let's see how they react when a skinhead is coming at them with a baseball bat.

@Are0h @modgethanc As a small women with no combat skills, violence would not be an answer if anybody came to me with a bat. For practical reason, not ideological ones. Naive question, are you super strong, to consider fighting an armed man with bare hand?

@Linuxine Obviously one should be practical and realistic in these situations. No need to be contrary just to be so.

@Are0h I really do hope neither you or me will have to face such situations in the future :s

@Linuxine I am harassed by police pretty regularly when I'm in the States, so it is just something I have to deal with, so unfortunately I don't have the luxury of wishing it just doesn't happen.

@Are0h I was talking about the man with the baseball bat. But sorry to hear that anyway :x

@Are0h I realize I am indeed lucky, not to have to deal with that for the moment... I at least hope it will get better in the future then :s

@Linuxine @Are0h i would certainly consider fighting back with my bare hands regardless of size/strength difference; what's the alternative in this situation? ask nicely to please not get beaten up?

if you personally would never consider fighting back in situations like this, that's totally on you; the point being made up-thread is that telling *other people* that they should not fight in self defense discounts other people's experiences.

@Are0h @Linuxine my point is not 'violence is the answer for everyone'.

my point is that 'violence is never the answer' is not a realistic positiion.

if violence isn't the answer for *you*, that's you. sometimes, violence is the answer for me. it has nothing to do with size or strength or combat skills, bur rather it's the idea that if someone tries to hurt me, i will hurt them until they stop.

@Are0h that said, i'm willing to be forgiving to people who say that out of naievete, because it's an appealing and compelling ideal when it comes from a place of purity, but i also take that opportunity to ask them to consider that ideal in the face of actual violence.

it's a nice feeling to know that there are people who have never experienced violence, but that lack of experience should not dictate others' self defense.

@modgethanc Oh yeah, sure. If one shows themselves amenable to reason, I'm all for that.

But there are people who are not that are still being given the luxury of civility. Not only is that ridiculous, but it's dangerous.

And personally, I'm really tired of people that aren't affected by it trying to tell people who are what is appropriate. They are out of their depth.

@Are0h I feel this for sure!!