And if you're wondering why I'm giving cybreDOTspace the side eye.

It's anyone on cybre's right to filter whatever they way, but when they're giving suggestions to bigots who have a history of harassing POCs and women, ha, that's a bit of a red flag.

And this isn't the first time we've seen bigots get space on cybre...

Again, either you are about creating a safe space or you're not.

If you're making space for bigots, racists and homophobes to feel comfortable in your space, you're making a choice.

You can't have it both ways.

> And this isn't the first time we've seen bigots get space on cybre


I fucking knew it, and i said it, and nobody listened.

@Are0h maybe i should think about switching 'main' instances.

@somarasu I'm just saying, man.

Folks have really been showing what they are since gab decided to join the fedi.

@Are0h why would they wait that long, or *for* that long, rather?

Numbers? A sense of 'consensus'?

@somarasu @Are0h
YEP theres a HEFTY amount of bigots and creeps on this here instance. And a pipeline of several influencers who invite them too. I don't think the instance will ever be a gab-like, but there distinctly are a lot of those people. As long as the good ppl here get vigilant about trying to push them out, get loud @ the admins, it should be.. somewhat okay, since they do block freeze peachers.. but. idk. Maybe it's a lost cause. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong too. I still kinda like it here.

@GinnyMcQueen Yup. They're going to have to be silenced.

Let me run it by my instance.

@Are0h and then they have the nerve to complain that we aren't using the proper channels, as if victims of abuse aren't literally silenced for speaking up 🤷

@GinnyMcQueen Ha, this actually made me chuckle.

They're nervous. They should be.

@Are0h if you have the time/inclination to answer, as a cyber user, in your opinion what's the best way forward here? Is it sufficient for us (c.s users) to do better in reporting creeps on our instance? (I've have this guy blocked for months, but I don't know if I reported him or not.) Is there a problem with the admin response, which we could possibly fix? Is the instance irrevocably tainted by this kind of thing?

I'm really looking for the best thing to do here.

@tindall Only the people on cybre can decide if it's something they want to fix.

The main issue I see with cybre is that there is not much will to suss out bad actors until people that are harassed by them make a stink.

Cybre definitely has a reputation for being lax in this regard and any space given to bigots enable them, which is why people are starting to veer away.

There's no quick fix, but cybre needs to greatly improve their response to bigots before they cause harm rather than after.

@Are0h Totally. I guess what I'm wondering is, as a user of cybre, is blocking and reporting enough (e.g. the system works but isn't being used) or is there systemic change that needs to happen over here (the system is broken and needs overhauled)? You're more equipped to see that than am I.

In this specific incident (and the Soni incident) it feels like the former, but I may be missing a pattern that points towards the latter.

@tindall Well, there's always room for improvement to improve the technical side of it, so that's going to be what it is.

But what I generally see is the will to do it.

For example, I have a pretty good network that I've built where we pay attention to the connections rather than treating them as one offs.

Blocking and reporting are great tools, but in and of themselves, it's not much.

How we work together to use them is the key.

And that's where the proverbial net break.

@Are0h That seems like a sensible position for sure. In this case and the Soni case, it looks like those posts were acted upon as soon as the admins got reports (based on chr's posts), so is the improvement that's needed an improvement in response time? Or is the expectation that such people should be dealt with _prior_ to spreading their bigotry outside of their own instance?

In the second case, we definitely need new technical controls. (Which to be clear, I'm not against.)

@tindall Thing about Soni is that she's not a special case. She's been harassing me and my people for the better part of a year and the last time she came at me was the last straw b/c I was tired of her starting drama for no reason.

In the case of cybre, yes they did get rid of her, but before that, she was allowed _alot_ of space before she got banned.

And this is the norm. Even places that profess to mean well _still_ give bigots a lot of latitude to operate.

That's the heart of the problem

@Are0h Yeah, that's clearly a big issue. I'm sorry I missed that aspect of the Soni situation; if she was reported and didn't have action taken against her that's clearly a c.s policy issue.

Regarding technical solutions, what do you think of setting up a system whereby new accounts can't talk outside the instance for some period? An enforced version of the "local only" feature in Glitch.soc might be a good way to force communities to evaluate ppl before unleashing them.

@tindall Yeah. And that policy is the norm for a lot of instances. I find there is generally a lot more patience for abusers than the targets of abusers, which is shy we keep going in circles.

You know, I"m still thinking about that. I'm having some convos about it with people that get harassment way worse than I do to find out what people actually need.

I'm not opposed to what you're suggesting, but I want to make sure I'm informed as much as I can be before I give thoughts on that.

@Are0h Absolutely. Thanks for taking the time to talk to me about this; harassment issues kind of stalled my will to work on fedi software but it seems like people (such as yourself) are building real defences to that problem, which is... sorely needed, clearly.

@tindall Honestly, I think we're closer to a solution than we think.

We just waste so much time with people that have no interest in finding them in the hopes the come around, which they rarely do.

I'm just honest about calling out people intentions so we can stop wasting time with them and do what I know we can do.

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