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Its interesting how their are so many post apocalyptic games that are basically just murder simulators.

It’s like a lot of devs interpretation of SURVIVAL is based on how many people one can brutally kill.

@Are0h I was just involved in a conversation sort of tangentially about this - how it would be so much more interesting to see how the interaction with the environment in those situations would make for a more interesting narrative and set of systems in games like this. So many games are about destroying things to obtain power rather than building up an arsenal of power by mutual gain. Why are these things all exclusionary?

@ryanlittlefield Honestly? I think it’s a supreme lack of imagination by the folks making these games.

It’s going in the same trajectory as major film studios. It’s just stale.

@Are0h Yeah. In some more indie-focused games I think we're starting to see very little movement towards embracing the ideas, but I can't see this overtaking the industry in any real sustainable way. How do you obtain resources? Destroy stuff. How do you ensure your position in the ecosystem? Destroy people. How do you move forward in the game? Destroy the origin of ideas that oppose your character's arc.

It's just all about destroying and not about cultivating. But people would have to *think*

@Are0h ...to implement systems that function around that relationship. So we don't do it, I guess.

@Are0h Now I'm rattling on about this, but honestly the fact that so many people are into Stardew Valley is a *good thing* in my eyes. Sure you destroy some resources to be able to recycle them into an environment you're creating, but it's about mutual gain and not a power trip that's dictated by some motive other than living a good life, for your character and the town.

@ryanlittlefield The popularity of Stardew Valley and Rim World is proof that people want more expansive experiences. Hell even No Man’s Sky’s revival sow people are actively looking for... more.

I think it’s only a matter of time before we get a definitive experience from an indie dev that has resources for a full blown experience.

@Are0h God I hope so. The last year or two seem to have been really dull even in contrast with the few years before that. Gotta break the cycle I guess.

@ryanlittlefield I don’t know if I’d agree with that. Major game studios have been boring sure, but the indies have been crushing for awhile now.

@Are0h Yeah sorry, I mainly meant in terms of AAA stuff. Indies have been fine.

@ryanlittlefield oh yeah agreed. I was laughing at how people lauded God of War. It’s a decent title, but it shows how desperate people are for something good.

@ryanlittlefield The ideas are out there. The Horizon mod for Fallout 4 is BRILLIANT. Not perfect, but it’s a pretty well thought out system that focuses on long term growth for a community, not just making bigger guns.

But we got Fallout 76.

@Are0h As much as I haven't 100% jived with Fallout in the past, I'll have to check that mod out and see what its deal is. Thanks for the mention!

@ryanlittlefield That and Sim Settlements really show the potential of what Fallout 4 could be... and how lazy Bethesda has become.

@Are0h Of course I look up the mod and the first "public" search result about it is someone pining about how they don't get why it's so great, and that the 'shooting isn't as good'.

@Are0h OOP

Also I used to be obsessed with this show that was post apocalyptic but instead of dealing with killing people and zombies, it was about getting fresh water and electricity and shelter and warmth and building community.

It got discontinued.

@guerrillarain I would LOVE to see something like that.

Of course violence would be a part of it, but it shouldn’t be all encompassing. That’s just doesn’t make sense.

@Are0h a funny aspect of that, i find, is that battle royal was thought of as the ultimate deathmatch kind of game setup, and so many of them end up rewarding judicious collecting of stuff, and staying out of trouble.

@gekitsu Individually, sure. It just doesn’t go much farther than that. And it’s usually about just getting enough stuff for causing and healing damage at a comfortable rate.

@Are0h of course – it only goes so far. :) i just find it an interesting tendency to manifest, as opposed to, say, the quakes and the murder simulators you mentioned.

@gekitsu I feel you. It’s frustrating when you see the pieces and it just goes down that same path.

@Are0h with ever thinner and thinner justifications, because it’s become too commonplace to come up with anything else.

@Are0h N.K. Jemisin cast shade on the whole post-apocalypse genre when she obliquely critiqued that kind of survival/killing fetishism in Broken Earth. The obviously sensible thing, the heroine reflects at one point, is to band together in stable communities, not to kill each other--something only a fringe of violent and desperate individuals engage in.

@lj_writes As if I needed another reason to love Ms. Jemisin.

@Are0h @lj_writes That banding together behavior is also backed up by actual humans in situations like that (not, like, the actual fall of global civilization, but yeah).

@benhamill @Are0h one of my fave Mad Max headcanons is that most of the indigenous peoples of Australia are living just as they have before while wondering what in the world those white people are up to now 😂

@Are0h Broken Earth--the only series in history to win a Hugo Award for every book in a trilogy--would make a SMASHING television show, games, movies, what have you, but just the TV series for the first book has been in development limbo for years and we know it's because the heroine Essun is a Black woman and the majority of characters are women of color smh

@lj_writes You know how that goes.

But hey let’s get another show about humanizing a violent white guy or speculative fiction about what if the Nazis won. Again.

@Are0h meanwhile a woman's struggle through slavery and abuse in a vivid and original world... nah not interesting enough. Unless they can whitewash the protagonists, in which case it becomes immensely interesting. It's so predictable.

@lj_writes @Are0h And like, decades of her struggle, too. You'd have to care about her into *gasp* middle age.

@Magess @Are0h she doesn't even have the decency to be young-looking and stick-thin! *clutches pearls*

@Are0h I would play the HELL out of a post-apocalypse game focused on rebuilding and community maintenance.

@ross Seconded!

I think it's a wider issue than games -- way to much media in general does post-apoc murder frenzy. Of the top of my head the only post apoc I've ever/seen read that focused on rebuilding, instead of surviving by killing shit, was The Postman. (Granted, I kinda stopped reading post apoc years ago because I got tired of the kill-everything approach, so maybe that's changed? I hope?)

@jessmahler Check out Station Eleven by Emily St. John Mandel! Not violence focused at all.

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