@Are0h Yes, keep going. Cannibalize your fellow ideologues. That'll solve the problem!

@Piejacker875 And being a sarcastic dickhead is a great way to deal with it?

Ha, ok bro.

To quote Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice;"

Even he saw the problem.

People constantly tell me that racists and bigots in America are just a 'loud minority'. That may be true.

I don't agree because the political position of white Americans has _always_ been decided by bigots. That's why inequality never goes away to matter who is in office.

And large part of what allows them to operate are white 'progressives' that constantly downplay how much racism motivates their community.

@Are0h Ah the "let them talk, they are a minority preaching in the desert" talk. So convincing...

- Muh Free Speech! *insert random false statement about POCs and/or queer people and/or immigrants etc.*
- That's hate speech.
- FREE SPEEEEEEEECH!
- You're a piece of garbage.
- Look, they insulted me!!!!

@switch I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

@Are0h I got mixed in my own thoughts. The premise was about the liberals telling POCs to let racist garbage go in peace. That was your point right? The fact that we, white liberals, tend to tell you, POCs, to not pay attention to racists, or am I mistaken?

@switch No, that's not what I'm saying, even thought that happens. People that don't want to believe racism exists is it's own thing.

What I'm speaking of is the white 'liberal' crowd that will agree that racism is a problem, but it's not 'that bad' or the 'only problem' in attempt to minimize the impact it has on American culture.

I think that is far more insidious than the outright denial of racism.

@Are0h oooooh. That makes perfect sense. Thanks. And sorry for the useless toot earlier.

@switch No worries. That's why we talk it out.

@Are0h The thing that white people forget is that racists tend to just be broadly hateful. As someone with a small disability, someone who is a leftist and a former academic, as someone who is queer, someone who is weird, we can see from the histories from WW2 about what happens if the racists broadly run out of racial targets. I know that while I do, now, enjoy a sort of invisibility, it is extremely contingent.

@c25l In the context of consistency inequality in America, I wouldn't say white people aren't being forgetful at all.

I think the reasons for that differ in the white ideological space. Some white people just hate non-white people. Some join in the chorus of bigotry because they don't want to deal with their compatriots throwing that rage at them. It's various.

But in any case, I definitely think it's intentional.

@Are0h I think it's super shameful, but there is a contingent of white people who hate non-white people simply because not doing so would cost them their hateful white community.

@c25l Oh yeah, absolutely. I think this motivates a lot of what we call 'liberal' or 'progressive' culture in the States.

As people, we all want to be healthy, safe and all those things. But what if it costs you some friends or family? What if it costs you being uncomfortable in certain situations to ensure everyone has access to that?

We know what decision white America usually makes, regardless of political affiliation.

@Are0h We do, and because of the structure of our country and the design of the evolution of the spaces in our country, most white people go through every day without having to interact with (m)any people who are non-white in any way that, or be in any space that challenges those choices in any meaningful way. They are always alienated from their fundamental kinship with the people they have chosen to dehumanize.

@c25l Agreed, which is probably the most fundamentally damaging thing for white Americans who practice and perpetuate racism.

There is just a fundamental disconnect from the rest of the world and its people's and it keeps them from finding the solutions they need to survive. And the unbelievable part to me is that it is encouraged.

Racism, the idea of preserving whiteness, they are all cultures that lead to poverty and death.

@Are0h great quote but why hide it?

@zem I don't know what you mean when you say 'hide it'.

@Are0h I just see the first 2 lines but the quote itself is hidden

@zem I don't know why you're seeing that.

@Are0h It's also partially because of a zero-sum game mentality (which is a false dictohomy), and (especially white) people clinging to existing power structures out of egoism and fear.

@mhka Kinda, but white people have shown the willingness to share, or at the very least, not be as racist to certain non-white groups, so I'm not sure if I would categorize it as zero-sum.

I think they target certain social groups. And they are willing to deal with the blow back because that culture prefers punitive means to deal with societal issues as opposed sustainable nation building ones.

@Are0h This sounds accurate, and fits with what I heard someone else say: racism exists between non-whites as well, but it's always the "most white" people having the most power/subjegating the "less white".

It seems to fit my limited observations, from Scandinavia. But I'll shut up and go back to listening now. :)

@mhka What you're talking about is colorism and yes it is usually on the scale of who is the closest to id'ing as white. There's a lot of ugly history around that here in the States.

LOL, you definitely don't have to shut up. As long as we can just talk about it, it's fine.

I only have a problem when people what to take what I say personally. Don't do that, and it's all good.

@somarasu Ha, that's most white people. I'm talking about the ones that profess to be 'liberal' or 'progressive'.