@Are0h you’re on fire, thank you.

@Are0h Blocked for racism. Replace "white" with "black" and everyone would agree it's disgusting and nobody has to explain themselves for the color of their skin.

@raucao Not once did I mention the color of anyone's skin, but make up whatever makes you feel better, sport.

@Are0h An interesting view I have as a "white hispanic" is how tightly groups that were marginalized as 'ethnic' not even a century ago cling to their white identity. Like they know the price of integration into "whiteness" was putting a boot on the neck of their cousin.

@paragate @Are0h I have a lot of experience in just this very thing. White Latinxs are such a clear example.

I won't dump trauma into someones mentions (thats birdland behavior) but YES

@paragate In this context I can understand, because dealing with racism and oppression is not joke. If someone has an out, I can understand why they would take it because racism is fucking nuts.

I don't agree with it because it just perpetuates the problem, but I can understand why someone would make that choice to escape racism... or more accurately at least try.

Because no one escapes it really.

@Are0h it's so arbitrary and cruel who does or does not get that out. I remember an african-american relating an anecdote on birbsite about a college professor describing the process of immigrant communities integrating into 'whiteness'. The student then asking, "When do I get to become white".

I remember, similarly, a family wedding I attended as a kid where the reception hall was pretty evenly divided between Spanish and English speaking relations, and the differences were so stark it shocked me. I had cousins sitting across a table, who lived across town, but whose lived experience was a foreign country.

@paragate Arbitrary and cruel is a great way to describe whiteness. In reality it's not even based on the color of one's skin, because ethnicity is not bound to melanin content, but rather the _perception_ of what someone is based upon the completely subjective aspect of race. It's complete non-sense.

But that's why it does. It divides us up based on a constantly set of shifting principles that are non-sensical.

@Are0h I'm a white person

And I couldn't agree more with this thread

@Are0h It's a hard thing to wrap one's brain around at first, from this side of things. You're not just conversing with me, you're conversing with all the (probably not examined) assumptions and baggage that comes with my privilege. And you're probably tired of having to play schoolteacher to one white dude after another.

"But I'm a nice person, how can you assume I'm a bigot?!?"

@greyduck Ah, but that's the magic of it. I don't assume anyone is a bigot. If one internalizes what I'm saying, you're _showing_ me your a bigot.

Most people don't pay attention to how I move on here, but I never go after people. Like ever. That's not my thing. The people that get the hard butt end of my commentary have shown me they are not amenable to reason, so they are treated accordingly.

I have no need to assume b/c people show me what they are.

@Are0h @greyduck

This thread gave me a lot to think about.

Thank you.

Especially this last explanation.

I'm sorry for the racism, I wish that gross white imperialism and slavery didn't happen. And all violence to this day. But it did. And every single drop of blood echoes far into the future.

I hope I understand.

@Are0h white people don’t see racism like fish don’t see water.

@1stPersonTooter Based on the fool that is POTUS and the uptick in hate crimes in the US, it's pretty similar here as well.

It's considered taboo to talk about the obviousness of racism because so many white people are invested in perpetuating the delusion it doesn't matter.

And just like in SA, white folks here get violent when anything disturbs that bubble.

@Are0h
... they seem to believe the lies they tell themselves. They genuinely don't believe they are racist, and when asked to examine their beliefs they shoot back a cursory, surface-level answer.

Don't know if Americans are similarly self-deluded, but I get the feeling that telling white people to examine their aggressive reactions isn't enough to convince them that they might be supporting shitty ideologies.

@1stPersonTooter I can't speak to the actual experience in SA, but it seems to be very similar to what happens in the States.

I would say white Americans are deluded as well. The racist backlash against Obama's administration is still not enough to convince white people of how prevalent racism is in their cultures. They just refuse to see reality while simultaneously complaining about a crumbling country.

@Nixfreak It's not just Europeans.

And yes, education would help, but that's not the crux of the issue.

The issue is that America is just a racist country and there is no will among the people who could change to do so.

@Are0h I disagree with that? America has a whole is not racist. That’s like saying all brown people are gardeners. That’s pretty sad. I understand that’s your opinion.

@Nixfreak You can disagree with whatever you like, but America has a history of sustained inequality. It doesn't matter of it's the whole of America or part of it. The result is the same.

And no, it's not like saying all Brown people are gardeners are because it's not simply about stereotyping. It's about systemic harm. So that analogy is non-sense.

@Are0h systemic harm? In what way?

@Nixfreak There are plenty of resources available to educate yourself on the systemic nature of racism in America.

It is very easy to alleviate your ignorance.

@Are0h really man that’s pretty arrogant of yourself to say that. Maybe instead of looking down at people. Talk about it , don’t tell them like your better them .

@Are0h sigh 😔 I wanted to have an actual intelligent conversion but guess not. I’m done ✅